The #Kazakhstan #MITM going on right now provides an interesting moral dilemma to those who also believe in the technological neutrality of #Tusky and whether organizations like Mozilla should sit idly by and let an entire government turn its populace into a the equivalent of a managed corporation.

My view is consistent: #FLOSS should reflect the politics of the owner and dissindents can exercise their uninfringed Freedom to fork, modify, and redistribute.

I am here hoping that Mozilla folks will have a moral spine, like the folks at Tusky, and try to protect users from government overreach.

It's clear that "technologically neutral" can lead to abuses: Tusky being "neutral because the tech permits it" could have led to more hate speech like "kill all Jews", Mozilla doing "nothing because certs are technically designed to work this way" lets the digital rights of Kazakhs be eroded.

It is clear that technology serves a human purpose, technology doesn't serve itself, so I believe we shouldn't let our human morals be a slave to technology, we should make technology reflect our humanism

@cj fear-based, hateful ideology is not an infectious disease of individuals, it's a metabolic disease of whole societies, and gets worse when you cut off affected organs, not better.

@strypey I agree with your article and disagree with your conclusion. Let local communities police themselves. That's what's happening. The fact that they don't want to let in (federate with) hate-speech communities falls perfectly under what the author of your article writes: communities self regulating trolls and bigots.

It is not my job to rehabilitate hate-speech bigots here on the Fediverse. It isn't anyone's job.


@cj @strypey of course it's your job. You're part of society and it's society's job to reintegrate its bad elements. Hiding your head in the sand _is not_ the right move. I was expecting better from you to be honest.

Also when you're saying that local communities policing themselves is what's happening I think you're turning a blind eye to how some communities (see librem) that choose not to police themselves the same way, are being shamed in mass by anti-nazi activists. Please.

@cj and when I'm saying "it's your job" I mean it, of course, as it's all our collective job.

PS. I'm starting to hate the 500char limit. Sorry if trying to be concise makes me sound like I'm more of an asshole than I mean to.

@mariusor I'm not hiding my head in the sand. Don't get that confused with "it's not my job". Online discourse is *not* the place to de-radicalize people. Neither is that Klan rally I saw when I was 14. There's a time, place, and most importantly a willingness on behalf of the radicalized person required. It certainly is not my job to do this.

I will certainly help them once they demonstrate a willingness to derad. Participate in the community, like you said. But still not my job

@mariusor I know we have our disagreements, and I know I'll keep disappointing you. :/

But I think some of the hate being directed at librem is unfounded. However, many criticisms are well founded, and they have earned those by choosing not to police themselves.

@cj they are fully entitled to do that in my opinion.

I also consider that people that choose to block the librem instance are entitled to do it.

I also consider that admins that choose to block librem are entitled to do it.

However I feel like people advocating that other people or instances block librem are wrong.

@cj I strongly disagree with you, but I respect your choice.

Now would you please aknowledge that my choice of not hiding from nazis' opinions and stupidity does not make me a nazi myself and the people that are thinking that are wrong.

@mariusor I don't know who is trying to slander you. Having met you personally I vouch for you. Even though we disagree I also still respect you and your viewpoint, and expect you to keep calling me out.

As for wanting to remail unfiltered that's your choice, doesn't make you a sympathizer, and I expect you're calling them out as awful/stupid/etc.

Hopefully this helps. :)

@cj thank you.

I wasn't talking about me as in the person you met at FOSDEM, but as me the internet rando from whose opinions get catalogoued as being "part of the nazi problem" just because they don't ascribe to the idea of hiding the mess under the carpet.

@mariusor Either way, FOSDEM or internet rando, I stand by what I said.

I do want to say that my OP wasn't about ActivityPub blocks and instance moderation, but in HTTPS certs and login blocks. So I hope you aren't extrapolating my stance too much.

@mariusor Maybe that'll make me disappoint you more, maybe less, I don't know, but a lot of the outrage culture I don't like.

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