Great idea. Leave the extremists where we can't see what they're doing. Where they aren't exposed to reason and common sense.
Really a grrrrrreat idea.


@Augur Anyone can go see what they are up to without federating them. Takes seconds.

People are lazy. Otherwise people wouldn't create, and isolate within, their own filter bubbles. Federated, they're exposed to us, and we to them.
Exchange, growth and understanding can not exist in isolation, whether it is voluntary, or not.
Grow up.

@Augur @isolategab

"Why don't you grow up and provide a massive platform for hate speech for free"

They have a platform. But if they are blocked, they aren't exposed to challenging worldviews. The extremism spural only goes downward from there on out...

@Augur @isolategab "Challenging Worldviews"

Ohhh, you're one of the naive "if we just provide FACTS to the bigots, they'll change their ways"

No, they've made their minds up and aren't likely to change. It's been repeatedly shown that's the case. If you want your instance to be a one-person army trying to convert idiots one by one, have at it. But you can't complain when people who know what these hate-mongers are capable of decide to cut them first.

Do you think there's just the fuckers with the made up mind on there? There's plenty of people who are not entirely made up, just leaning towards that, there. Like with antivaxxers.

@Augur @isolategab LOLOL. So you're leading with the ones MOST likely to quadruple down and harm their own children to spite medicine?

You're living in another world. It's amazing.

@Augur @isolategab

And lest we forget, your argument still boils down to "Allow hate speech to thrive and harm thousands and cause literal terror attacks on the extreme remote offchance that ONE person in a thousand changes their mind and decides to be a decent person."

Terror Attacks? This sort of "argument" says everything about your closed minded narrow views than theirs. You are the kind of person you warn others about: An extremely narrow minded individual with an agenda and an unwillingness to even acknowledge a differing view, let alone change your mind. Facts are as foreign to you as to a flat earth antivaxx fascist.

@Augur @mlubert Isolating sites that welcome and amplify Nazi's, school shooters and white supremacists isn't exactly being "narrow."

And yes Gab and platforms like it have had domestic terrorists post there before the attack.

When these terrorists post there. And that is in an enclosed little bubble. Nothing gets prevented.
If the world sees.
Apprehension can take place.

@Augur @isolategab Get your head out of the clouds. You want everyone to police the entire Fediverse 24/7 looking for terrorism suspects, actively engage with hateful bigots to try and change their minds, and allow everyone to communicate freely with no restrictions or safeguards in place to prevent mobs from harassing people.

@Augur @isolategab

*Calls Gab causing terror attacks foolish*
*Gets shown proof terror attacks talked about on Gab*
*Claims not-all-Gabbers*

@Augur @isolategab

By the way, here's your own instance's rules and block list. You'll notice we're VERY much in agreement. You seem to be the outlier.

I hate racism.
I debate fascists.
But I don't think that isolating them is the right way.
If I see some shithead planning a terror attack - be it a fascists/racist, a leftist, a religitard, what ever - I take action to try and prevent it. If the Fediverse just collectively plugs their ears everytime a GABer opens their mouth, it minimizes our chances of catching those who plan such shit...

@Augur @isolategab

"A good guy with access to Gab can stop a bad guy with access to Gab"

Meanwhile, it's been shown that Gab is financially struggling. If the efforts to cut them off and further associate Gab with hateful people continues, it might die. The less exposure people have to hate, the less likely they will be radicalized into action.

Also "I debate fascists" Oh, yeah, sure. Lincoln Douglas? Or just bar debate in which nobody says anything and nothing changes.

More eyes see, more is seen, more is known.

You still don't get it, do you? Here we have an access point. Where we can find the extremists and the terrorists to keep watch on, and those on the fringes to convert.
If gab it's blocked all around, if gab is destroyed even, they'll retreat. Fringes are lost in a rabbit hole, extremists are unchecked... That's not a reason to celebrate, that's dangerous...

@Augur @mlubert Except we have all that even while not federating their content out.

@Augur @mlubert It is a tiny bubble when all the major Fediverse instances choose to make it so, and not federate their reach outward to others outside of Gab-island.

That is the point: keep it that way. A shrinking silo. They still can see the larger Fedi. But we don't have to amplify them.

Then authorities etc can hold their nose, go in and see what's up in there.

@Augur if I block gab, gab can still see what I post.

So I can both deplatform nazi and have them see my world view by blockig it.

Ps: Engaging in comments on not blocking gab is bad look.
What is in it for you, provided what I just told you out how block works, especially in mastodon?

@Augur They are exposed to us now. And they can leave Gab-island at will; without federating them. And they see us now, even when we block or silence their instance...

(Except where Gab has blocked other istances, which it does)

When you block them / their entire instance, guess what they see?
Jack all.
Through exposure and conversation can views be changed. Not through stubborn "I don't like what you have to say, talk to the hand!" idiocy.

@Augur users on blocked instances still see us, we just don't amplify and federate them out.

I don't see what people are up to on instances that have blocked an instance I'm on.

I'm on also an instance that isn't very liked. (No. Not Gab.)
Many instances blocked that instance. I don't see anything from them there...

@Augur And you can see them by adding an account there and going in. Would take you two mins.

How many instances should I have users on??? Jesus...

@Augur @isolategab none of them were ever listening to is, just insulting and threatening us. They're welcome to leave their little cave and visit if they can behave themselves.

If you think it's important to debate Nazis, go do it on your own, I've found it less than productive.

@Augur @isolategab its been tried, tested and proven that reactionary communities die off when they are isolated and deplatformed.

there comes a point where you have to ask yourself if you care more about the *low chance* of trying to convince a nazi that maybe racism isnt cool, or about protecting their potential victims from the many more assholes that dont want to be convinced

@ItsMorgan @Augur @isolategab I cannot remember where I read this, but I'm sure it has been shown that , when reactionary communities die off, their more novice members go back to mainstream spaces where the chances of radicalisation are lesser, and where it's easier to convince them away from extremism.

@Augur @isolategab some of us also just want a place to have some fun online with friends and compatriots without having to worry about MagaBernice1953 or KekFrog_NPCSlayer barging into our mentions, we don't exist to be 24/7 paragons of humanity who have to be always on-duty to rehabilitate assholes who have to be taught to be kind to other people

@jimpjorps @Augur @isolategab

According to him, by existing, you are required to allow them to spew hate speech at you because if you don't then maybe someone might not see the single magic moonbeam of love that makes them not a piece of garbage. And if we cut off Gab we'll create a Super-Gab that can't be stopped, just like what is happen--oh, the exact opposite is happening? Odd.

I get it. You want 'safe spaces'. There's no such thing. You interact with other human beings, with thoughts and ideas of their own: there is no safe place on earth, or this universe.
But I get it. And I respect that. I also get (and respect!) that you want to at least shield you from what shit you can.
Doesn't change my mind though...

@Augur @isolategab there's gradations between "completely ensconced in perfect safety" and "exposed indiscriminately to everything", people can choose to set up an online social circle they're comfortable with without being hopeless waifs who can't deal with conflict

Isn't that why we have a Home Timeline, a Local Timeline and a Federated one?

@Augur @jimpjorps Federation is not a right. Each instance and community can by design have freedom of association as to what they wish to enable or be associated with in terms of Federation.

@isolategab @Augur @jimpjorps hey remember a few days ago when Gab/Spinster admins suggested people create accounts on other p instances and attempt to disrupt things? It kinda looks exactly like what he's doing? I've already reported him for suspect behavior. Maybe others should do the same?

My account is a bit older than that. You could've checked that before throwing around baseless allegations here mate.
@isolategab @jimpjorps

@Augur @isolategab

"Grow Up" says the man who continues to claim that simple conversations between hate-mongering bigots and human beings is enough to cure them of the hate they refuse to acknowledge.

The fact that you again display radical thought in your writing that is akin (at least in tonal aspects) to that of the fascists is fascinating. "Hate-mongering bigots" vs "human beings".
In absentia especially. You need to talk about that? My inbox is open.

@Augur @isolategab Yawn. "I'll pretend to be the sensible one by acting calm and logical"

@Augur @isolategab if you're looking for a platform for people to debate and compare ideas, I hear Gab is all about free speech.

@isolategab @Augur they actually can't...

I can prove this: I actually have a Gab account where I post useless bullshit, but also to see how Gab actually works when it comes to federation

if I try to search up my own masto account from Gab (the same account I'm using to write this post) you can easily see that NONE of my messages actually show up. only like 2 actually...

@miro @Augur Gab itself blocks instances federating TO them.

@isolategab @Augur actually no that's not how blocking works

I know several legit masto instances that properly federate to Gab. I'm pretty sure that when you block an instance, you prevent its users from looking at your instance as well.

so essentially, it works both ways

@miro @Augur Here was my sorcing on that those in blocked instances can still "hear outward" to the larger fedi, that a block isn't "two way."

Just out of curiosity, it's it possible that "silence" and "block" got confused in this piece?
Essentially what I'm saying is that, since they're here, we can as well listen to them. Take the wind out of their sails. Expose them to a differing opinion/worldview. Blocking them does NONE of that, except making those who block, SEEM (!) close minded and unwilling to dialog...

@Augur @miro Hmmm. I don't think so, it seems pretty clear, and she is one of the developers of key Mastodon projects. So those blocked do still see out, we just don't have to offer a channel for their content to radiate outward of their instances.

Regarding listening: You can listen to them fine without federating them. Just login to Gab and search. Or use other instance search tools. And if the goal is to take the wind out of their sails, when you silence or bock them, that right there makes "no wind in their sales" outside of their siloed island -- as no way for that content to be channeled outside of it's silo.

I have to take that to the bank, but will keep my eyes open, because something seems off here...

Taking the wind out, in the sense of listening to their "concerns" and then refuting them, while giving them the impression that we take their concerns serious.

Let us agree to disagree. I'm not advocating in favor of Gab and the radicals there, but to take them serious enough not to ignore them.

@Augur @isolategab let's be real, they're already refusing to expose themselves to knowledge by even being on the Gab platform!

that's really what the whole point of instances are, so you can find people who share similar values to you.

enough with this "both sides coming to an agreement" shit, cuz that ain't happening anytime soon.

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